Johanna Unzueta

Meet the Residents / Siena is a seasonal series of interviews with Amant’s Siena Studio & Research residents. The conversations take place in the Amant residency studios in Chiusure, in the heart of the province of Siena.

In the summer of 2024, Amant’s Chief Curator, Tobi Maier recorded this conversation during a studio visit with resident artist Johanna Unzueta. With this transcript of their conversation, we introduce Johanna’s practice to our wider audience and discuss questions such as: What is the impact of the Chiusure and Siena context on our residents’ practices? In what ways has the proposed project changed since arriving and why? And finally, what is artistic research and how is it done?

Tobi Maier: Johanna, to begin with, I hope you could tell us a little bit about where you came from, and where you were before you came to Siena and to Chiusure.

Johanna Unzueta: Well, I’m originally from Chile. When I finished studying art in Chile, I decided to move to New York with my former partner, who is an artist, too. We moved to New York on January 21st, 2000. In 2020, I moved to Berlin, where I live now.

TM: You had already finished your studies when you moved to New York?

JU: No, not my MFA, only my Bachelor’s degree. Although in Chile it was five-year degree at that time, more like an MFA. I wanted to come to Europe, but we have friends in New York, so we decided to move there instead. I spent around 20 years in New York, more or less. And I’ve been traveling back and forth, even after I decided to move. In 2018, I participated in the 10th Berlin Biennial, curated by Gabi Ngcobo. And it was great. I mean, it was kind of like a message to me, which said “you should move here somehow.” So, I decided then that I wanted to come and live in Berlin. And I had always wanted to be in Europe, so that was the thing to do. But then the pandemic came. We kept our apartment in New York, where my son still lives. And I always have some exhibition project, something to do there.

TM: I remember that Berlin Biennial. You were exhibiting your work in various spaces.

JU: You are right, in two venues. One was at the Akademie der Künste, where I presented seven drawings, like the stand-up drawings–my sculptural drawing installation. That was beautiful. I mean, I think it was, if I’m not wrong, the second time I had the opportunity to show this new work. I started to make the drawings in 2012, and before that people knew me more because of my felt sculpture installations, which are more figurative, industrial kinds of objects. So, everybody was in a panic, thinking: what is going to happen with the felt? But I still do both and do more than that. I also work with film. At the Akademie der Künste, I presented these seven drawings. And at the ZK/U, the other venue, I did a mural piece. I do three-dimensional murals. For me, it’s hard to see a flat thing hanging on the wall. That’s the reason also for me, why it was challenging when I started to do the drawings. Because I didn’t know what the heck I was doing, basically. It was completely new. It was like I didn’t know that I was able to do these things. So, it took a lot of time to decide. Now I have a new collaborator that I work with. It took time to find the solution with the wood and the cubes, you know. And to put the drawing behind Plexi-glass.

TM: When you say partner, what you mean is a formal solution.

JU: Yes, yes. The drawings have two faces. I never consider one as the face and the other as the back. Both are the same for me. One side is rather quiet, and the other is busier. It’s kind of like day and night somehow. So, I started at the beginning, with the drawings. I started with just graphite pencil, very simple and kind of small. I have a friend who works in a print shop, and he always gives me papers, you know. Different kind of papers, like leftovers, colored papers, whatever. And I think the first time I did like a large drawing was in 2014. At the same time, I got invited to do a residency in Antigua, in Guatemala. So, it was a perfect timing for me to start working and try the indigo ink, the añil. Because in Chile, I grew up making my own dye. That was my playground when I was a kid, collecting plants. My grandmother showed me how to make colors out of these plants and vegetables, stuff like that. But I never really worked with blue. Because in Chile, the añil—because of the climate—is impossible to grow. So, it must be grown in the tropical hot weather. So, I went to Antigua. I did the residency and started working with the añil. And from that day on, indigo has been my signature color. Now it is by that color that people identify my work. But I work with different pigments, too. And I prepare my own tints.

JU: When I came here to Chiusure I was very open to seeing what I could find and what I could use. Because my work also talks about the local traits. I don’t want to keep importing or exporting materials. And that applies to everything: plants, but also what we eat and how we dress. So, I’m very conscious about that and I like to experiment a lot. That gives me a lot of freedom, which I love, too. When I arrived here, I did not know that this was the land of the artichoke, which I think is my favorite vegetable, plant, and flower, you know. So, I was already very excited to try and see what color I could get from the plant. And I tried different ways to do it. I also used rosemary, which grows everywhere around here. So, yeah, I mean the colors you see in the silk pieces in my studio are all from here. And, some of the paper is being dyed with the tints that I made here. At times combined with something I brought with me.

TM: When you speak about the artichoke and it being your favorite vegetable, I see one painting here right next to me. You produced ink from pigment that is derived from the artichoke. How do you create this pigment?

JU: Yes, I produce the base. I have two different tints. The water that I use has been collected from the rain here, which I did in Berlin before, too. Of course, you cannot see that in the drawing; but I know it, and I think that’s valuable. Also, I collect water for different dyeing methods, like for fabrics. So, I collected the water here and cut some rosemary and tried to see what color resulted from this process. I saved different bottles with this tint and then I used the artichoke to produce tint, too. And I’ve been using that as a primer on the silk. It looks very kind of pale, in a way. And then this tint is mixed with other pigments I have. And this (points at a painting) is pure artichoke color itself, all this green. And this is a little añil that I have from before, but I generally mix it.

TM: You already talked a bit about your research here in Chiusure. Is that how you usually approach your research projects: you sort of tap into a local specificity and explore its potentials?

JU: Absolutely. As I said, I like to work with what I find around me, you know, to collect what is in the place, rather than bring things from far away. I try to find out, for example, more about original materials—like this dress, which is made here in Italy, or this tool (Johanna points at a wooden stick which is used for a hoe), which is the wooden part of a gardener’s tool, I think. So, I saw the piece of wood and I said, “oh, I love the shape.” I’ve been building around the idea of the loom and its tools. Everything that you see has been bought here or collected.

TM: And the cloth is a cloth that you brought with you.

JU: Yes, I have had this for, I don’t know, 20 years probably.

TM: What’s this cloth type and where did you source it?

JU: It’s silk from India. This is linen I got here in Italy. I mean, around here. Anna went with me to buy it in a shop. And the idea is to now visit the atelier where they produce this, you know, here in Italy. So, those are the kinds of things I’m looking for: local crafts or materials. They are still original and produced here.

TM: And next to it, leaning against a column, you present this beautiful piece of veneer.

JU: These fragile long sticks are made from many tiny pieces of wood. I mean, it’s amazing, the work. So, I found it in a warehouse and went crazy for it. It’s an old technique that is still alive.

TM: It is almost reminiscent or could be read in analogy with the beadwork that we just saw in Venice at many of the First Nation or indigenous artists’ presentations, right?

JU: Well, I grew up around indigenous people. When I talk about my grandmother and my family, my father was from the south of Chile. So, I spent a lot of time there, even though I’m from Santiago. That was the time where I learned to, you know, weave and dye and make all of this. For my thread, I sheared the wool from the sheep. Thus, the work is very craft-based. But I think it also carries a lot of knowledge from history and from the economy as well. I think we can talk about that and just try to conserve and keep and make use of what we have around us. The rules of nature.

TM: You also seem to be continuing other research projects, particularly within the field of drawing.

JU: I’ve been working on drawings for an exhibition coming up. They are almost reminiscent of masks. Well, I mean, they always come differently, in a way. For example, it’s the first time I used this shape, kind of like a triangle, with round corners. I have little wooden pieces in my studio that I like. It’s a game for kids, you know, those wooden blocks. So, I use them to organize the drawings. Most of the time I use just ovals or circles. I’ve been using ovals and circles for 10 years. So, this, I have to say, it’s kind of new, just using this triangle. But it’s a triangle that has round corners.

TM: And then you kind of fill the shapes with line drawings.

JU: Patterns, yeah. I mean, some of them are more like textiles, or even, look like wooden pieces. Here, for example, you can see more little detail. This color is the same that I use for the architecture. Here are different colors, even if I use the same tint. It changes, depends on the weather, the heat, how long I keep this, if I use it immediately, like right away. And then if I use it in two months, it’s different. But that is part of the beauty for me: I never know. It’s always open. I don’t have any control and I don’t want it. And then every back of each drawing is also very special. Because of the colors and the dots and the cuts, which I call windows. I like the idea that the light comes through. In turn, that makes the drawing not a flat piece, but a three-dimensional object, you know.

TM: So, you must always have windows in your studio?

JU: Yeah, I need a lot of light because, I mean, I cannot work with artificial light. I can’t function when the light is gone–I’m like an animal or plant. I feel my drawings are like plants, honestly. I got this idea maybe two years ago. I was thinking about what I use and the ways the drawings fade. The colors start to go at some point. People ask me if I’m worried about that. And I reply that it’s the most beautiful thing because the work is alive, it’s constantly evolving. To see the change, it’s like to see the change in your friends and your parents, you know. As humans we change, we don’t stay the same. So, for me, I don’t pretend that my work stays always the same. It is due to the materials I use, what I decide to work with. The work talks about life, the circle of life.

TM: You also said that, besides studying local plant life to uncover traditional dye sources and methods, you were interested in fostering a dialogue on plant science and consumer behavior, as well as collaborations with the community. Now you talked a little bit about this, with the special veneers that you found or with the textile: you are sort of tapping into traditional fabrication methods. Could you talk a little bit more about that community connection?

JU: Years ago, I started to read this book, The Empire of Cotton, which for me is like my Bible. And it’s shocking, I mean, to read about how the history of a plant as humble as cotton is connected to the history of slavery. How the plant was moved hundreds of miles, to produce this material on another continent with slave labor. It’s shocking for me.

It was just a plant. The same with silk, or even indigo. The history of indigo is insane; it was called the gold tint, because people paid so much for it. It used to be only for royalty, like kings and queens. They were able to use it, but it doesn’t grow everywhere. Can you imagine, indigenous people were killed to get that color, because it was needed in Europe. So, for me, all this manipulation is not only speaking to our bad behavior towards nature, but also what we are as humans. What we went through, because of the use of, and the need of these resources. It’s a history that’s still with us even what we eat, you know, or what we wear.

TM: In that respect, for the next couple of months, are there more interactions here with the community planed, or with the immediate neighborhood, or are you planning to do more trips around Italy or Tuscany?

JU: I would like to find this atelier, this little factory. They still produce some of the linen and I think now they started to work with hemp. And I think soon it’s the time when all the berries start to grow. And so, I would like to see if I could collect some of them to create more colors.

TM: In that respect, your work is very well suited for the production within a rural context, perhaps even more so than in a big city like New York or L.A.

JU: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I always think about what somebody said once, which is that my work is very primitive. Because, yeah, that’s the way it used to be, people using what they have around. I mean, they would kill animals to eat and be able to use the skin to wear and protect themselves. It is really a gift for me and my work to have this chance to come to places like this where I’m surrounded by nature. And still, you can find so many things that are like handmade, you know. It’s still like people still produce things. Even talking about food, I don’t know, cheese, wine, truffles. So even though I cannot use those things to make any colors, but for me it’s part of the economy, culture, and societies. It is also about the people who live here, how they relate with this, with the land. And how they feel about us here, the artists coming for three months. It is also about how we interact with them. I always invite everyone to come and see what I am doing. So, I don’t want them to be strangers in their own land.

TM: Just out of curiosity, do you then also go for walks around here?

JU: Yes, I went to San Giovanni d’Asso, just to see, because it’s the town for truffles. I love truffles. And I wanted to see what I would find there. And I walked all the way there and back and it was fabulous. I mean, I love that, walking. I love nature. I’m curious. I’m a curious person, I always say that.

TM: Now, Johanna, we also were just in Venice. And I know you also visited local producers in Venice. I wonder if you could tell us a little bit more about that.

JU: Well, first, yeah, I found this little, humble factory. They specialize in velvet, producing velvet. But they still produce the fabric in the same way it was produced in the 15th century. And they even use the same looms, you know. So, when I found out that this place still exists—it’s in the middle of Venice, you just go and walk through and you never even think that that house could have all this amazing history inside of it—it was, for me, inspiring to see that we can still work without basically creating any damage to the ecosystem. It made me have a little faith in the future. Like, we can still do good things without creating more damage.